NPR’s Ailsa Chang speaks with former Rep. Jackie Speier, who represented a California district as a Democrat, about sexual misconduct at the Capitol in the wake of the #MeToo movement.
AILSA CHANG, HOST:
Two lawmakers say they will sign from Congress after being accused of sexual misconduct by former staff members. They are Congressman Tony Gonzales, Republican of Texas, and Congressman Eric Swalwell, Democrat of California. Gonzales admitted to having a sexual relationship with an employee who then committed suicide. Announcing his departure, he wrote on social media: “There is a time for everything and God has a plan for all of us.” And Eric Swalwell was publicly accused of sexual assault by a former employee and misconduct by several other women. Today another woman accused him of rape. His attorney said Swalwell, quote, “categorically and unequivocally denies each and every allegation of sexual misconduct and assault that has been brought against him.”
We reached out to former Congresswoman Jackie Speier, also a Democrat from California, to discuss these developments.
JACKIE SPEIER: It was a typical profile of some members of Congress who, once there, feel entitled, untouchable, and may engage in illegal and reprehensible behavior.
CHANG: Speier spoke openly about her personal experience with sexual assault on Capitol Hill and pushed for reforms to increase accountability in Congress. So I asked him…
As these stories have emerged, we continue to hear how Swalwell’s behavior was, quote, an “open secret” on Capitol Hill. And coming from a place like the House of Representatives, could you help us understand what an open secret might mean in that chamber and how people handle it?
SPEIER: They look away. They do not feel responsible for reporting that behavior. And since it’s just a rumor, they can’t really prove it, everyone mind their own business because it’s convenient to mind their own business. And it is not like that until there is an ethical investigation; and, you know, getting ethical research done is usually something that takes a long period of time.
CHANG: You’ve admitted your own experience as a young congressional staffer. Can you remind our listeners what you went through?
SPEIER: So it was, you know, a situation where the chief of staff and I were working late, and he, you know, came into my office and pushed me against the wall, kissed me, and stuck his tongue in my mouth. And I pushed him back and made a point of never being alone with him again.
CHANG: Did you tell anyone at that time?
SPEIER: No, I didn’t.
CHANG: Why did you feel like you couldn’t?
SPEIER: Because, you know, it was – there was no one there to watch it. Even though it was, you know, some kind of sexual assault, you know, I was able to reject it and nothing ever happened again. But it made me aware of how easy it is for people in power in a congressional environment to feel like they can take advantage of people.
CHANG: Absolutely.
SPEIER: So when the #MeToo movement happened, this was in 2017, I thought, okay, we have to fix this. So I joined forces with conservative Alabama Republican Congressman Bradley Byrne, who had been a labor lawyer. He recognized the problems. And then we worked together on the legislation. Which was impressive to me…
CHANG: Yes.
SPEIER: …The original law that was created in 1995 creating the Congressional Office of Worker Rights was really a sham because it protected the member of Congress. So…
CHANG: Right, the member of Congress would get Congress to pay for a lawyer, right? – and the accuser would have to hire his own lawyer, right?
SPIER: Exactly. And then if there was a deal, the member of Congress would not pay the deal. It was paid for by taxpayers.
CHANG: Exactly.
SPEIER: I mean, it was amazing. So we worked to change all that. Now, the victim who comes forward is assigned an attorney to represent them. If there is an agreement, the affiliate is responsible for paying it.
CHANG: But it’s been almost 10 years since the height of the #MeToo movement, and this week’s news makes it feel like nothing has changed. I mean, is that impression that not much has changed fair? And if so, why do you think?
SPEIER: What’s really fair is to ask the question: Why didn’t these women feel like they would have the protection they needed to come forward?
CHANG: What do you think is the answer to that question?
SPEIER: Well, I mean, I guess it was because they were afraid of retaliation or being excluded from getting another job on Capitol Hill. But that’s what I ask my former colleagues in Congress to do. Find out why they didn’t think they would be protected enough. And then make sure those protections are in place.
CHANG: Many of these allegations against Eric Swalwell initially gained traction online through social media posts from…
SPIER: Right.
CHANG: …Several content creators who then came together to collect survivors’ stories about their behavior. What does it tell you that these women saw this as the most viable route to accountability, rather than going through some formal process in Congress?
SPEIER: Well, it’s heartbreaking for me, since we worked so hard to create those protections. But that being said, I worked on this issue related to rape on college campuses and sexual assault in the military. And what was most effective was when they could go to a website that was private and they could enter information about their perpetrators and see if there were other cases where there were similar victims. And what usually happens when you do that is that you see that there is behavior that is not unique. And then you want to protect other women. That’s what happened here too. When there was, you know, a critical mass of other women, they were like, wait. Okay, now I’m ready to introduce myself.
CHANG: Absolutely. So what needs to change right now?
SPEIER: Well, one of the things that needs to change – and we thought we had it fixed, but the law has to be changed – is that there is no tolerance for sexual harassment or sexual assault of any of your staff members. That kind of behavior should require Congress to explain itself.
CHANG: I mean, it’s amazing that you have to say that out loud, that that…
SPEIER: It is.
CHANG: …It’s a change that needs to happen. Do you know what I mean?
SPIER: Yes. Exactly. I mean, when you think about the private sector, a CEO has a relationship with some subordinate and he or she leaves. But in Congress, not only do you not leave, you can continue to serve, so to speak, and collect your check.
CHANG: Former Congresswoman Jackie Speier of California, thank you very much for your thoughts and opinions today.
SPEIER: Well, thank you for focusing on this very important issue.
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